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Monday, October 14, 2013

The Fire and Water Podcast, Episode 67

The official podcast of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE and FIRESTORM FAN

Episode 67 - Ocean Master #1, Deathstorm Toys, and Geek Talk

This episode Shag and I wrap-up Villains Month with OCEAN MASTER #1 (by Geoff Johns, Tony Bedard, Geraldo Borges, Ruy Jose, and Rod Reis). We also discuss the NYCC and the recently-announced Deathstorm action figure (along with a brief retrospective of the character in molded plastic). Finally the podcast degenerates into a somewhat heated argument about the validity of the Earth-2 Aquaman!

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Have a question or comment? Drop us a line at firewaterpodcast@comcast.net

This episode brought to you by InStockTrades - http://instocktrades.com

Opening theme, "That Time is Now," by Michael Kohler.

Closing music by Daniel Adams and Ashton Burge of The Bad Mamma Jammas! http://www.facebook.com/BadMammaJammas

Thanks for listening! Fan the Flame and Ride the Wave!


Earth 2 Chris said...

Whoa, the dog isn't the only thing that's Salty!!!

Earth-Two Aquaman: Sorry Shag, your argument holds no water. Just because the Earth-Two Aquaman didn't show up until around Crisis doesn't matter. The Earth-Two version of Green Arrow you sited wasn't established as such until 10 years after most of the other Golden Agers were revived as Earth-Two versions. The Earth-Two Superman and Batman were relatively late to the party, first appearing toward the end of the Silver Age. And Batwoman, yes, Batwoman didn't get an official Earth-Two doppelganger until a few short years before All-Star Squadron #31 (in two stories penned by Alan Brennert...YEAH!!!).

Now, was the Earth-Two Aquaman the exact same character as the Golden Age Aquaman? We can't be for certain, since his appearances were so limited. Several characters, most notably Superman, had Earth-Two-specific adventures that directly contradicted some of their published Golden Age material. Clark Kent clearly worked for the Daily Planet and Perry White from the early 40s on, but writers such as Mike Friedrich and Gerry Conway keyed in on "lost" elements of the Superman canon such as the Daily Star and editor George Taylor to differentiate this Superman from DC's then current Earth-One model. Aquaman, with his wildly divergent origins, wouldn't have really needed such tweaking. The proposed Secret Origins story would have fleshed out the rarely touched on "experimented on by my father" origin, and would more than likely not really have contradicted it.

So yes Shag, there WAS an Earth-Two Aquaman. As the number one fan of a character who is constantly composed of an ever-shuffling array of different personalities, I would think you could more readily accept this concept.

Earth 2 (See, I'm an expert on this!) Chris

Russell said...

Here are my four reasons for believing that there is an Earth 2 Aquaman.
1. All characters who were ever shown to have battled Nazis were on Earth Two. As everyone knows, Aquaman faces Nazis in his debut adventure. No one on Earth 1 was ever shown to have been around long enough to have battled Nazis.
2. Everyone who appeared before Martian Manhunter made *his* debut in 1955 is considered to be on Earth 2; everyone after, Earth 1. I think the only exception is Captain Comet, but I'm not sure about when he first appeared.
3. Aquaman shared his back-up space with Green Arrow and Johnny Quick, both of who (whom?) definitely lived on Earth 2.
4. Gardner Fox and Julius Schwartz didn't know too much about Aquaman's character or history. These are the men who said Aquaman had NO secret identity whatsoever; we all know *that* is wrong. I wouldn't trust them on something like this, either.

Sorry, Shagg, but there IS an Earth 2 Aquaman.

Diabolu Frank said...

1. I liked Blackest Night, especially for the way it came back from the popular satire of Marvel Zombies with a serious take on undead meathumans ("metahumans" typo left in as Freudian.) It didn't hurt that the magnificent Ivan Reis actually finished it (increasingly rare for a crossover) and that it also brought Martian Manhunter back from the afterlife.

2. I had a fairly livid Twitter rant about the whole Fake Geek Person thing a few weeks back. The truth is, the whole Revenge of the Nerds scene is over, everyone is a fanboy, let's all drink Coca-Cola and sing Kumbaya together. As much as we may wish to keep the bloodlines pure and elite, or sisters can now intermarry with people who think Syfy original programming is actual science fiction. Comic book fans have replaced gay cousins as something every family has, is overcompensatingly proud of, and they want to hook you up with them.

As far as the conventions go, the same type of guys that used to brag about having the first Superman comic book ever (Treasury Edition &/or cover credited to John Lindley Byrne esq.) can now tell all their friends about having met the creator of Wonder Woman and Supergirl, Mr. Paul Somethingorother, who now draws Archie stories. Look, having attended a panel that featured Joss Whedon can now get you laid
(a gender neutral statement,) which is a way better social lubricant than defending Michael Vick. Also, appreciate how much money there is to be made from flipping "free" stuff on eBay.

Michael Bailey said...

To answer Rob's question...yes, there was a second volume to the SECRET SOCIETY OF SUPER-VILLAINS hardcover line. It does include the JLA issues.


Diabolu Frank said...

3. If Shag's bully was socially maladjusted and in the closet in the '80s, why would you want to open up any avenue of communication with him today? Isn't the most likely result suffering a fake internet friend with questionable opinions inappropriately expressed?

4. I preferred the simplicity of Black Lantern Firestorm over Earth-3 Deathstorm. The exaggerations Shag mentioned were the prerogative of individual artists, not an essential design issue. Deathstorm-3 has costume/color elements that make him more garish and unappealing. You know, more Firestorm-y.

5. Secret Society of Super-Villains was originally going to be collected in a Showcase Presents. That was canceled, and the solicitation text was recycled whole for the full color hardcover. I ordered it under those terms, only for the book to be made returnable when DC only collected half of the promised run. I was so ticked that I didn't order the second volume to complete the set, and it's not like they bothered to color the Cavalcade or Amazing World material anyway. I have most of the run in single issues, anyway.

6. Shag, what are your thoughts on whether or not Barack Obama is a U.S. citizen? No, no-- this is important.

Look, Julie Schwartz and Gardner Fox created Earth-2, so it was their prerogative to exclude Aquaman. However, the omission was illogical based on the distinct differences between Golden and Silver Aquaman, and Roy Thomas retconned him in. Therefore, one side is right on saying there was no Earth-2 Aquaman before Thomas, and the other side is right in saying there was one afterward, but most importantly, you're all a bunch of nerds arguing over minutia that was rendered a non-issue nearly thirty years ago.

I think anything published by National after March 1951's All Star Comics #57 is fair game for taking place on Earth-1. Captain Comet debuted a few months before that, but he's a contender for first Silver Age hero and firmly established on Earth-1.

Russell said...

By the way, Jerry Lewis' comic started out as The Adventures of Dean Martin & Jerry Lewis. When they broke up, Jerry got the comic-book.


Unknown said...

I know it's a minor point in comparison to the Earth-2 Aquaman debate (for the record, I'm pro E2A), but I feel like I should add...there were 2 Aquaman figures in the DC Action League line...the Brave & Bold Aquaman mentioned on the show, and a Flashpoint Emperor Aquaman.