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Monday, January 07, 2013

The Fire and Water Podcast, Episode 39

The official podcast of THE AQUAMAN SHRINE and FIRESTORM FAN
Episode 39 - Aquaman #15 and Justice League #15 Reviews

Shag and I discuss the first wave of the monumental Aqua-centric crossover, "Throne of Atlantis!"  First up is JUSTICE LEAGUE #15 by Geoff Johns, Ivan Reis, Joe Prado, and Rod Reis. Next we dive right into AQUAMAN #15 by Geoff Johns, Paul Pelletier, Art Thibert, Karl Kesel, and Rod Reis! Stick around to the end to find out how you can win a free Aquaman or Firestorm t-shirt from the Fire and Water Podcast, courtesy of our sponsor PopFunk.com!

As promised on the show, here are links to the PopFunk.com Aquaman and Firestorm selection of t-shirts! During January 2013, use the promo code FireWater10 to save 10% on these shirts! Our thanks to PopFunk.com for their generous sponsorship!
Aquaman - http://www.popfunk.com/mens-tees/dc-originals/aquaman-t-shirts.html
Firestorm - http://www.popfunk.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=firestorm&x=0&y=0

Have a question or comment? Send us an e-mail at: firewaterpodcast@comcast.net

Also, you can leave a comment on our sites:
THE AQUAMAN SHRINE - http://www.aquamanshrine.com
FIRESTORM FAN - http://firestormfan.com
FIRE AND WATER PODCAST TUMBLR - http://fireandwaterpodcast.tumblr.com

Subscribe via iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/podcast/the-fire-and-water-podcast/id463855630

Intro theme, "That Time is Now," by Michael Kohler. Outro music by Daniel Adams and The Bad Mamma Jammas!

Thanks for listening! Fan the Flame and Ride the Wave!


Len said...

Too bad the PopFunk discount only works on specific Aquaman and Firestorm shirts in the links. Oh well, I did my part and ordered an Aquaman shirt. Please enter me the contests so I can win a matching Firestorm one.

Anthony Durso/The Toyroom said...

I think the reason that "Justice League" #15 feels different than all other previous issues definitely has to do with the new art team. First and foremost, they have a past track record working with Geoff Johns on "Aquaman", "Blackest Night" and "Green Lantern". But I think more important than that is the fact that they AREN'T Jim Lee.

No don't get me wrong...Lee is a great artist but for the last several years he's been basically a pin-up artist. Any feel he had for pacing/storytelling seems to be lost and it's almost like he's just phoning in a splash page on every page. Couple this with his notorious problem meeting deadlines.

Thus, I think Geoff Johns was skimping on plot and dialogue (both of which he excels at) in order to "write for Jim Lee's strengths" as it were...i.e. lots of posing for the camera and some "blow-up" scenes and little substance. None of those early "Justice League" issues read like the Geoff Johns that has handled large casts and multiple plot lines like "GL", "Blackest Night" and "JSA". Even his "Action Comics" run with Gary Frank had more bang for the buck per issue in comparison with his JLA run with Lee.

I had a hunch from the get-go that Lee's run would be a lot of "sound and fury signifying nothing". From a marketing standpoint it sounded great to get people to buy into the flagship book of the New 52 relaunch. But in hindsight it really dragged things along.

cリnical said...

The Boys > Jim Lee. I've never been a big Jim Lee fan, anyway. Every male face he draws is exactly the same. No really, go look them over. Plus, he doesn't grasp the fact that GL's uniform isn't made from cloth. Ugh...

The Others are getting their own book? For really reals? Amazing!

Who sent those missiles to Atlantis? Amanda Waller. Bank on it.

How on earth did we get a sponsor? That's mind-boggling, but awesome. I assume I'm ineligible, but an Aquaman shirt would be a fantastic addition to my collection.

BlUsKrEEm said...

Oh man an Others book?! Oh please say it's really true. I loved the Other's arch, and I can't wait to see what they do with such an odd ball team. I really wish they hadn't killed off Vostok.

Favorite part of Throne of Atlantis so far: Volko tossing Superman like a rag doll. Imagine what an atlantian soldier can do.

I wouldn't mind an Aquaman shirt, btw.

BlUsKrEEm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Orin's dad said...

Another great podcast guys! Loving the Aqua-crossover! I agree, Justice League is now finally getting readable. Hope this keeps up after the crossover ends.

Totally awesome that the podcast is now sponsored. Just shows what a great job you are doing with it. Keep up the great work!

I picked up an Aquaman shirt from Popfunk, but they have so many to choose from I'd gladly take another Aquaman shirt. Winners can't be too picky, though, so I'd be happy with a Firestorm shirt too... :-)

BlUsKrEEm said...

PS My money is on Leron is responsible for the missiles some how and that he is Mera's father in the 52'verse. He also unleashed the Trench, not to attack The surface, but to attack Atlantis while it's soldiers are busy with the surface dwellers.
Also Cyborg will be choke slammed by the end of this event.

Russell said...

Another great podcast, although Shagg seemed especially nicer to Rob this time. Maybe because he was sick? ;-)

I just assumed that it was Ocean Master who took control of the missiles and let the Trench out. If it isn't, then Johns' plotting really doesn't work, because, really, isn't he the only suspect?

I would love another Aquaman t-shirt, or a Firestorm one for my buddy Jason Rush. :-) Regardless, I plan on buying one or two before the deadline after I get paid later in the month.

Diabolu Frank said...

1. I'm not a fan of Mera's altered costume. I think the appeal is in seeing her in a new suit after all these years, especially from these artists. More cleavage and exposed arms is kind of a Wonder Woman thing, and not practical nor in service to the basic design of the character.

2. Nice how Johns makes a point of offering Aquaman fan service at the expense of Batman, of all overpraised heroes. There was a headline at the movie site Pajiba when the latest Justice League movie rumors hit called "Gretchen, stop trying to make Aquaman happen!" The Sea King seems so fetch lately.

3. By extension, it's hard to forget the time Christopher Priest retroactively made Black Panther cooler by revealing the King of Wakanda was spying during his membership in the Avengers, preceded by Mark Waid unleashing The Xavier Protocols and followed by Batman in "Tower of Babel." Besides sounding awfully familiar, the plot for these issues sounds pretty thin, or in other words, like they were written by Geoff Johns.

4. Black Manta's minions used to wear purple in the '70s, and it was a really good look for them. Manta hasn't had minions since then, which to my mind diminishes the villain. Meanwhile, putting Ocean Master in purple, while "regal," makes me think of Black Manta minions two complete universal reboots removed. I know it's Orm's original color, but he never rocked it, and I prefer the dark blue/gray and orange of the past fifteen years or so. Most problematic is the complete absence of orange and Ocean Master's being rendered more generic as a result. The guy doesn't pop on the page, in the same way PAD (and even moreso Post-PAD) Aquaman seemed flat compared to the iconic gold & green.

5. Geoff Johns' early work was impressive, and I agree with Shag that the time period around his solo run on JSA was his career high. There was a time that he was my #1 pick to "fix" Captain America, and I enjoyed his take on the Avengers. Unfortunately, his overlong stays on the Wally West Flash and Justice Society books ruined both for succeeding writers, he never managed to justify the resurrections of Barry Allen and Hal Jordan, he effectively set back DC's representation of minorities forty years through whitewashing, and anything he writes that isn't derivative of Alan Moore is derivative of Alex Ross ripping off Alan Moore. He's now in the coasting phase of his career before the inevitable dissolution of his fan base and reversion to shorthand namedropping in relation to associated cliche. For instance, Flashpoint what now? They made toys because.

6. Like everybody else, I dug Jim Lee on Alpha Flight, then the Punisher, and most especially on X-Men and WildC.A.T.s. Unlike everyone else, I got over it in a big way, and am now more often than not thoroughly unimpressed with Lee's lack of progress as an artist over the past twenty years. Lee's barrel chests, action figure anatomy, lifeless stock faces, and hamfisted storytelling leave me cold. I typically find him entirely inappropriate on DC properties. He peaked as an X-Men artist, and I really love his take on Captain America, but I have reached a point where I simply do not want to see him draw anything else. Meanwhile, I was impressed with Ivan Reis on Lady Death, and he's since become the finest glossy stylist of his generation. I could do without the constant abuse of splashes and spreads, but he still has more storytelling sense and other involving "cinematic" qualities than Jim Lee ever will.

Diabolu Frank said...

7. I suspect the reason why the New 52 Justice League book feels like it's only just now getting started is because Jim Lee's necessary lead time divorced the book from any DC Universe connections, and the early issues were probably so terrible because of extensive rewrites to turn a "getting the band back together" story into a "formation of an all new team" one in the years it took Lee to draw his issues. I feel the book actually "began" with the Tony Daniel issues, especially since the new art team makes the book feel like "Aquaman and his Superfriends."

8. You know who would have been better than Scarecrow for Aquaman and Batman to team up against? Smile Police. I'm all about Aquaman riding a giant seahorse. That is the best thing that is 100% his, way more than talking to fish.

9. So who is going to drop dime to Bleeding Cool about The Others ongoing?

10. Lois Lane, Commissioner Gordon and Harvey Bullock all getting rescued by Aquapeople? It's a good thing there's all that water around to make them so useful. Wink wink nudge nudge.

11. I like how Aquaman chooses to choke Batman, the one Leaguer present who supported him and the physically weakest on the team. This after Vulko sucker punched Superman. See why we demanded to see your birth certificate and then impeached your non-Atlantean ass, "Sea King?"

12. The "Vibe" League? You sons of bitches.

Diabolu Frank said...

13. For myself, Paul Pelletier has always been my third favorite guy with a style very strongly resembling John Byrne's, after latter day Byrne himself and everybody else who draws a lot like Byrne. For instance, Tom Grummett and Al Vey would have been amazing on this book, far better than Byrne himself. I'd also have preferred John Byrne, who is a better storyteller and less prone to doing excessive Reis style splash pages while being fractionally as visually interesting as Ivan Reis.

14. Jeez Shag, you don't need seven Justice League members for an Aquaman crossover. Duh. Actually, this is probably more of a "Vibe League" scene, amiright? Also, Rob, Ocean Master triggered the missiles. Aquaman only has two villains, and I don't think it was Black Manta.

15. The problem with Aquaman's plan to flood the surface world? It won't work, and thus, Aquaman is lame-- no matter how much Orin Sue is on display.

16. I demand a Floridian Mayor Alligator mini-series, possibly from the creators of Axe Cop. Pompano Beach, right?

17. If I write "Aquaman shirt" for the Popfunk giveaway, do I have an Aquaman's chance against Batman of winning? Or even worse, a Mera's chance against Wonder Woman? Say, I guess I do remember something about Flashpoint. I officially abstain, in case Rob decides to send a pipe bomb instead.

18. Why Aquaman is now doomed as a headliner: He spent a year battling Black Manta, then co-starred in the forgotten Flashpoint, then fought sea monsters for a bit, then fought Black Manta for another year, then fought Ocean Master in a crossover directly comparing outgoing art team Ivan Reis and Joe Prado to incoming art team Paul Pelletier and Art Thibert, and then along came Cutlass Pete. ~FIN~

P.S. I had to pass through nine Word Verification gates to post three comments due to length and errors. I will never attempt this sort of thing on the Aquaman Shrine again.