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Thursday, March 31, 2011

The Aquaman Shrine's Code of Conduct

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In the four and half years the Shrine has been running, I've never laid down any particular ground rules as to what's appropriate here and what isn't; I've always preferred to sort of "lead by example" and hope that everyone who comes by here will pick up on that vibe.

In the first few months of the Shrine, I was a much harsher and nastier critic than I am now. I said stuff about people's work that I now regret, and have done my best to go back and scrub all that from the site. I remember getting an email from a relative from an artist whose work I mercilessly tore into, and I still get a twinge of shame when I think about it. As we all know, on the internet its all too easy to let your id fly, especially when you can do it anonymously.

Generally, when the Shrine is covering something I don't like, I just don't mention that part of it, and let it go at that. And when I have decided to be critical, I try to do it in the most constructive, polite way possible--"this art sucks" is not a helpful, nor polite, way of expressing oneself when it comes to other people's work.

The reason I'm boring you all with this is lately, there seems to be more commenting than usual that is nasty, mean, or just kinda gross. In the first four years, I think I've only had to delete about a dozen comments, and extraordinarily high good-to-bad comment ratio, and I'm very proud of that: the Aquaman Shrine is meant to be a happy, upbeat place to visit, and so far 99% of you seem to want it to be that way, too.

But for whatever reason, in just the first few months of 2011 I've had to delete a number of comments, something I hate doing: I appreciate every single person who stops by here, and I don't want anyone to think they're opinion doesn't matter or is disregarded. I also like having the comments posted in real time, not having to go through my approval first--I think its more fun(!) if everyone can respond to each other, and installing a "time delay" would, in my mind, ruin what is one of the essential elements of the Shrine.

But I would appreciate it if everyone could remember to try and express themselves a little more gently--if you don't like a piece I've posted, you can either A)say something like "Not a big fan of this", B)present an actual argument as to why you don't think its good, or C)not say anything at all. The minute it becomes mean and nasty, I pull out my Aquaman trident and poke the "delete comment forever" button. Okay?

Thanks everyone...now back to the Aqua-Fun!

39 comments:

Wings1295 said...

Rob - Good sentiments, and like you said, adhered to by most of the people here. I think the issue is more that your site has gained more and more exposure and with that comes a wider variety of reader. Not all are gonna feel like they have to play by the "rules", and in fact, so will go out of their way to be contrary or even mean for the sake of just being mean.

But, long comment aside, I do appreciate the community you have started here.

Wings1295 said...

Meant to say "SOME will go out of their way".

rob! said...

Thanks Joe!

Joe Slab said...

The problem you describe (although more extreme) caused DC Comics to close the comments section of the Source Blog this month, so apparently it is a more widespread issue?

Plaidstallions said...

Well said and you're not alone, I don't know what's in the air but negativity is abundant these days. Pop culture seems to take a real beating

Shellhead said...

There's been trolls almost as long as there's been an internet. Censorship isn't the answer, though, Rob. Are you in favor of banning books? I don't think you do(from what I've gleaned from years of visiting the year I'm betting you lean to the left), so why such a heavy hand? I can see deleting profanity and spam, but beyond that? As long as we're discussing Aquaman related items, the conversation should flow freely.

Anonymous said...

Well, that explains why I'm always in a good mood after visiting this site. Of course, with a character with primary artists like Cardy, Aparo, and Fradon, it's hard to find anything to criticise in the first place.

James Chatterton

Brent said...

Thanks for your post Rob. I agree with Wings that this problem is a sign of greater exposure, so congrats! I look forward to having the same problem some day! :)

And I think it's fully your right to censor the comments. It's your site, and I think trying to maintain a friendly and mature conversation is a breath of fresh air in the blogosphere. All to often I get sucked into reading comments on a site that end up either getting me enraged or depressed, tempted to join into the anonymous and consequence-free vitriol. While the web (and blogs in particular) have allowed so many to have a voice, many act as if there's not another person on the other end, and spew hate and anger without thought. I know it's been said before, but I doubt most people would be as mean and nasty if they were talking to a live person.

Anyhoo, keep up the great work. Looks like the next year is going to be a busy one for the Shrine!

The Irredeemable Shag said...

Rob - Great post! Really well put. As others have commented, I believe this is simply a result of Aquaman's higher profile (and the increasing awareness of your fantastic site).

There will always be haters and trolls, but thankfully the AQUAMAN SHRINE will remain a safe haven for all Aquaman fans, regardless of which incarnation.

Keep up the great work!

The Irredeemable Shag
http://firestormfan.com

David J. Cutler said...

I dunno if removing comments is equivalent to banning books--it's more like a publisher refusing to print a book. The writer is still free to take his or her comment or book somewhere else (their own blog, perhaps). It's Rob's site and I appreciate the fun and civil tone he's fostered here.

JD said...

I DID say "Don't care for" in relation to the Bob Strang "art" piece posted, and there was nothing profane or nasty about it either, it was matter of fact according to my personal art tastes. And you deleted it and censored me for NO justifiable reason other than "political correctness," What, I have to love EVERYTHING posted here now? Please grow up, "Rob!" and allow others to express their opinion or don't do a blog type of site. That's what blogs are for to EXPRESS OPINION, not delete them because you disagree! So much for freedom of speech!

Earth 2 Chris said...

It's your blog Rob. So it's your rules. The only thing more rampant on the net than rude behavior is the over-developed sense of entitlement some folks have.

Chris

JD said...

B.S., Chris. "Rob!" presents this blog as being a community type of place for any and every Aquaman fan, then starts deleting comments that are supposedly offensive, but really only because he personally disagrees with them. I guess "Rob!" considers himself some sort of fascist dictator of Aqua-fans who has the right to silence any other fan that disagrees with him. I'm sorry to beat a dead horse so to speak, but I've NEVER had any of my comments deleted from other blogs as I NEVER use profane or offensive language in my posts, and I just find my posts being deleted here over basically a difference of artistic tastes to be utterly outrageous. As I stated this blog IS presented as a Aqua-fan community blog and not just "Rob!"'s opinion blog.

Shellhead said...

And here we go . . .

But in JD's defense, I've had at least one comment deleted. One of the deletions was purely political (I called him on a crack he made about Fox News and asked him to keep the Shrine apolitical).

Welcome to the Big(ger) Leagues, in any case Rob. Perhaps we should start a forum for the site?

JD said...

And another of my non-profane comments just got deleted! Stop treating other fans' opinions like spam, Rob! Your opinion isn't the only correct one in the universe, let others have their say!

John Trumbull said...

JD, lighten up. It's Rob's blog, and he's perfectly within his rights to moderate the comments here as he sees fit. At the end of the day, this is HIS blog, and we are his guests. Try to be a courteous one.

JD said...

He needs to call it Rob's Aquaman Thoughts and Opinions then, and I would not be so disgusted with him. Don't present the site as he has as a fan community then discourage discussion. I don't want to cause trouble, I just want to be able to say if I like or dislike something without the comment being treated like spam!

David J. Cutler said...

JD--relax. If you want a pulpit for your opinions, maybe start your own blog? The reason you prefer to post here is the traffic is higher--and that's because of Rob's work, not yours. If Rob decided to delete any or all of my comments, I'd understand. Were this a communal site, we'd all be able to post items forum style, but it's not--it's Rob's site he devotes a ton of time to, for free, and its popularity reflects that devotion. Up to him the kind of comments he wants connected to it.

Wings1295 said...

I have to agree with John and David.

JD said...

And this is why Aquaman and Wonder Woman have less fans than other characters, because both of these characters' fan bases (both of which I happen to be a part of) maliciously attack each other (online, anyway) over stupid things like taste in art. Nice. Go fans!

JD said...

To clarify better: I've frequently seen Aquaman fans criticize or go after, etc. other Aquaman fans online regularly. I was hoping this site would be different. The Same is also true for Wonder Woman fans. It's a real shame, we should all be more accepting of each others' opinions surrounding our favorite comics.

Sean Tiffany said...

JD, if I had a party in my home, bought the drinks and food, set things up, and I had a bunch of friends over for a good time and you showed up, acting the way you do, I think I'd politely ask you to leave as well.

And just because you don't use profane language doesn't mean you're not acting like a tool.

While I can't comment on any of the posts you wrote that Rob took down I will say that, based on what you are writing here that Rob didn't take down, he is not only being more than generous by letting you rant but I doubt any of us have missed any of your brilliant thoughts that Rob edited.

Thanks again Rob for, daily and without any compensation, putting a blog out there into the world that is fun and that people enjoy!

JD said...

A rant is pointless Sean, I HAVE points if you'd actually read the posts. Like I said this is the ONLY blog I've ever posted on where the creator finds something wrong with me saying I dislike an art style or anything else or that matter and deletes it. Rob probably just hasn't had time yet to delete all of my posts. Feel free to disagree.

Stephen said...

I appreciate having this forum to find out breaking news about Aquaman and also to appreciate past interpretations of the character.

I hope having more people know about and join the site doesn't damage the collegial atmosphere it has established.

David J. Cutler said...

I've never seen Aquaman fans attacking one another online, in my life, so this is news to me. And I'm not attacking you now--I just think you're out of line and while this is a site we treat as a community, it isn't a community forum--it's Rob's website. It's his name on the site, it's he who picks FOAM members, and his discretion how critical we can be of art and storylines at the end of the day.

If Rob DID delete all your comments in this thread (and he may) I'd consider it as a service to you, as you aren't coming across very well. There are people here I disagree with all the time--best runs, best characters, whether or not Tempest has a good costume--but I've never attacked them, and I've never felt attacked. Last year I infamously predicted there would be no ongoing series for Aquaman in 2011, and as yet, no one's called me an idiot for being so wrong (thanks, guys haha).

I've only recently begun noticing your posts, so maybe you're new here, but ultimately I actually like you, JD. I just think you maybe need to take a step back and see this is a privately run fan blog and having some negative comments deleted doesn't make you a martyr.

Tony Romo said...

As a guy who has a tattoo of Aquaman on his shoulder I am frankly stunned that anyone thinks that Rob's blog is somehow property of a community of Aquaman fans. It's his hard work, very well done and I was thrilled when I discovered it and became a FOAMer. But never have I ever thought, boy, I am glad I have a stake in this website and demand to be heard in this forum. This website is cool, it clearly takes work that only one person does, and that person can do whatever he pleases with his Intellectual Property. If you get your posts deleted, then maybe apologize and move on if having your posts here means that much to you. Or go create your own fan blog and slag Rob off there as much as you like. Oh and have a nice day!

JD said...

I am getting too serious about nothing when it comes to the grand scheme of this, huh? Thanks, David, you made me realize this is not worth being angry about. And Rob pretty much runs the ONLY regularly updated Aquaman site, so I'll try to be "nicer." Honestly though, I talk pretty much the same way I post and I've never been accused of being a "tool" before like Sean referred to me.

JD said...

Also, people seem to think I'm obsessed about my posts being on this site, I'm NOT at all, I was just really mad that it happened as I never had it happen to me before and I've posted on lots of topics all over the place. Oh, and I don't apologize for having an opinion. Plus, Tony Romo!?! Not trying to be rude, Are you for real or are you just a fan of his?

Sean Tiffany said...

JD, when you call a friend of mine and the nicest person I know a fascist dictator who you are "disgusted with" while you are on HIs blog you, my friend, are acting like a complete tool.

It might do you well to go back and see how you act while commenting on people's hard work.

JasonMotesBowles said...

Eff this BS!!! KIDDING!!! Rob, TERRIFIC blog, definite fun atmosphere and it is a highlight of my every day, so keep up the good work!

JD said...

Friends don't call friends tools or delete their posts to begin with, Sean, Geez, I WAS trying to end this unpleasantness. I concede that my dictator comment was too much and obviously out of anger and I do actually regret going THAT far now. If I had the know how to put together a site of my own, I wouldn't delete people's posts over something like harmless art critique. Can we maybe not be mad at each other now? I want to converse with more Aqua-fans than just at the local comic shop.

The Irredeemable Shag said...

I'm with David, Sean, and Tony. It boils down to this... this is Rob's blog. Plain and simple. It's not community property.

If you don't like the rules, that is your right. Simply move on to another site.

Thanks to Rob for all the fantastic work you do!

The Irredeemable Shag

JD said...

I'm willing to adapt to the preferred tone of posting here, because there really just aren't many places to discuss Aquaman online. Sorry for being ungrateful as this blog is an invaluable resource for fans.
I just feel unfairly targeted as the initial post of mine that started all this "code of conduct" stuff just seemed run of the mill and not offensive at all. I just don't understand what Rob found so outrageous about it.

Joe Slab said...

JD-

You hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that the Shrine offers an opportunity for Aquaman fans "to converse more than just at the local comic shop."
rob! (yes, lower case r, o, b, exclamation point) has created that here and I know that it is meaningful to everyone who takes the time to visit and post, you included.

My own ongoing relationship with the Shrine began with a blog comment that I made that was somewhat provoking...long story short rob! and I worked through it like adults and now I'm on the payroll (JK).

I hope you stick around and consider that you stand to gain more than you would lose by respecting the type of conduct that rob! is attempting to foster on the Shrine :)

Joe Slab

John Trumbull said...

So let me get this straight, JD... Rob puts up a post asking everyone here to be as polite as possible. Judging from the timestamps on your posts, you've spent about EIGHT HOURS complaining about your posts being deleted, called the guy who started & runs this blog a fascist for moderating the comments as he sees fit, and you STILL don't see how you're being a tool?

Frankly, Rob is a lot more tolerant than I'd be in this situation. If it were up to me, I'd ban you and block your IP address just so we wouldn't have to put up with you any more.

John Trumbull said...

And btw, JD, Blogger is absurdly easy to use. You don't need a lot of web know-how to use it and start up your own Aquaman site if you're so inclined.

JD said...

I Didn't spend Eight hours here, I checked in occasionally whilst doing other things to try to understand what the hell was soooo offensive about me saying I disliked a piece of artwork! Seriously, you're checking time stamps now!?! This is what got me upset, I say some random silly thing about a piece of art and now it's become a whole bunch of other commentators here are demanding I be banned.

David J. Cutler said...

No one's "demanding" you be banned (one guy said were he in charge, he would ban you)--we're asking you calm down. This is the kind of negative hyperbole you get accused of and have removed from the site. This isn't about whatever negative things you've posted previously anymore (and I've seen a few of them), it's about your continuing attitude in this thread. Just relax, maybe use a few less exclamation points, and realize nobody hates you.

I think a big part of it is (if I had to guess) you're a fair bit younger than most of the posters here. I'm one of the youngest, and I'm in my late 20s. The tone here is much more laid back and positive than I think you're used to. Just move on and put this behind you.

Aaron said...

I'm not loving this thread.